DeepSummary
In this episode, Ezra Klein interviews Adam Moss, considered one of the great magazine editors of his generation, about his new book "The Work of Art: How Something Comes From Nothing." The book features conversations with 43 artists, exploring the process of editing and refining their work to achieve greatness. Klein and Moss discuss the often misunderstood and underappreciated role of editing in the creative process.
They delve into how editors trust their own reactions and sensibilities, and the challenges of hiring good editors who can identify and shape great work. The conversation touches on the role of tools like paper versus digital mediums in the creative process, and how an artist's approach evolves over different stages of their career. Moss shares insights from various artists featured in the book, including their techniques for generating ideas, embracing new materials, and achieving a state of creative flow.
The discussion explores the balance between play and rigor in art, the importance of training and discipline, and the idea that great work often emerges from trusting one's innate sensibilities rather than solely catering to an audience. Ultimately, the episode celebrates the human effort and editorial vision behind transforming something ordinary into a work of art.
Key Episodes Takeaways
- Editing is a crucial but often misunderstood step in the creative process of transforming decent work into something great.
- Great editors trust their own reactions and sensibilities rather than solely deferring to audience preferences.
- The ability to identify interesting minds and hire strong editors is a challenging but vital skill.
- Using physical tools like paper can help artists achieve a state of creative flow and embrace disposable drafts.
- Balancing playfulness with discipline is essential for creating great art.
- Over their careers, artists must navigate the tensions between youthful boldness and experienced caution.
- Artistic greatness often emerges from trusting one's innate creative voice rather than trying to escape it.
- The human effort of shaping and refining raw creative output into a polished work is underappreciated but essential.
Top Episodes Quotes
- “It's trusting the reaction. And then there's another part which is kind of separate, which is figuring out what to do about it.“ by Adam Moss
- “I listen for confidence, but not too much confidence. I listen for just an interesting mind.“ by Adam Moss
- “Paper, for one thing, is something you can throw away. So there is a thing that a lot of artists and writers do, which is they create a first pass that is perishable, that is meant to be disposed of.“ by Adam Moss
- “You are who you are. And that is kind of a question they're all asking.“ by Adam Moss
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Episode Information
The Ezra Klein Show
New York Times Opinion
4/23/24
In our recent series on artificial intelligence, I kept returning to a thought: This technology might be able to churn out content faster than we can, but we still need a human mind to sift through the dross and figure out what’s good. In other words, A.I. is going to turn more of us into editors.
But editing is a peculiar skill. It’s hard to test for, or teach, or even describe. But it’s the crucial step in the creative process that takes work that’s decent and can turn it into something great.
Adam Moss is widely known as one of the great magazine editors of his generation: He remade The New York Times Magazine in the late 1990s and early 2000s, and during his 15 years as editor in chief of New York magazine, shaped that outlet into one of the greatest print and digital publications we have. And he’s now out with a new book, “The Work of Art: How Something Comes From Nothing.” It’s a curation of 43 conversations with artists about the marginalia, doodles, drafts and revisions that lead to great art. It’s a celebration of the hard, human work that goes into the creative act. It’s a book, really, about editing.
In this conversation, we discuss what musicians, writers, visual artists, sandcastle-builders and others have in common as they create; how editing is an underappreciated and often misunderstood step in the creative process; how creativity morphs in different stages of our lives; and trusting your own “sensibility.”
Mentioned:
“A Subtlety, or the Marvelous Sugar Baby” by Kara Walker
“Miss Gleason” by Amy Sillman
Ezra Klein Show episode with George Saunders
“Mother and Child on Blue Mat” by Cheryl Pope
Ezra Klein Show episode with Maryanne Wolf
“Fidenza” by Tyler Hobbs
“In a River” by Rostam
Book Recommendations:
Interviews with Francis Bacon by David Sylvester
Faux Pas by Amy Sillman
The Sketchbooks Revealed by Richard Diebenkorn
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Annie Galvin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Isaac Jones. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Rollin Hu, Kristin Lin and Aman Sahota. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. And special thanks to Sonia Herrero, Rachel Baker and James Burnett.