DeepSummary
The host, Liv, discusses stories of Achilles, Patroclus, and Heracles' beloved male partners from Greek mythology. She shares a clip from a conversation with scholar Charlotte Gregory analyzing the portrayal of Achilles and Patroclus' relationship in the film Troy. Liv also revisits her previous episodes covering Plato's Symposium, which debates whether Achilles or Patroclus was the 'erastes' (older lover) or 'eromenos' (younger beloved) in their relationship.
Liv then plays excerpts from her earlier episode exploring the philosophical discussion of Achilles and Patroclus' love in Plato's Symposium. The ancient Greek philosophers laud their love and sacrifice as the epitome of true devotion between lovers.
The episode concludes with Liv recounting the many male lovers attributed to the hero Heracles across various ancient sources, revealing the widespread acceptance and reverence for same-sex love in Greek mythology.
Key Episodes Takeaways
- Ancient Greek literature and philosophy extensively discussed and celebrated same-sex relationships between heroes like Achilles and Patroclus, and Heracles.
- The film Troy downplayed the queer subtext between Achilles and Patroclus present in the source material.
- Plato's Symposium features an in-depth philosophical debate about the nature of Achilles and Patroclus' relationship and the ideas of 'erastes' and 'eromenos'.
- Heracles was attributed with countless male lovers across the Greek world as locales wanted to connect themselves to his mythology.
- Ancient Greek society had more open attitudes towards same-sex love, at least among men, compared to later eras.
- Greek mythology contains a wealth of significant same-sex relationships that were explored and analyzed in ancient times.
- The episode aims to reclaim and analyze these queer narratives from Greek myth that have often been downplayed or erased in other retellings.
- Charlotte Gregory's modern analysis unpacks how contemporary works like Troy filter ancient queer subtext through a heteronormative lens.
Top Episodes Quotes
- “A homoerotic reading of Troy and how they're clearly trying to suppress this queer reading, but they cannot. It still creeps through, which is fun to sort of analyze.“ by Charlotte Gregory
- “He sacrificed more, and so he was rewarded with more. For his love of Patroclus.“ by Liv (summarizing Phaedrus' speech)
- “If Heracles is anything, it's a slut. Okay, I mean, maybe that's harsh. I'm not slut shaming, but it seems like a good opener. You know, there's nothing wrong with being a slut. Heracles can do it. So can you. Let's take back the word. It's a fun one.“ by Liv
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Episode Information
Let's Talk About Myths, Baby! Greek & Roman Mythology Retold
iHeartPodcasts and Liv Albert
6/25/24
Stories of Achilles and Heracles and their beloved boyfriends. Featuring a clip from my conversation with Charlotte Gregory, episodes on Plato's Symposium, and the episode dedicated to Heracles' lovers. Find all episodes from past Pride Months in this Spotify playlist. Help keep LTAMB going by subscribing to Liv's Patreon for bonus content!
CW/TW: far too many Greek myths involve assault. Given it's fiction, and typically involves gods and/or monsters, I'm not as deferential as I would be were I referencing the real thing.
Attributions and licensing information for music used in the podcast can be found here: mythsbaby.com/sources-attributions.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.