DeepSummary
This podcast episode features a discussion between Adam Wagner and David Allen Green about the new COVID-19 lockdown regulations in the UK. They analyze the language and potential issues with the regulations, including vague wording, inconsistencies with government guidance, and concerns over enforcement and interpretation by the police.
A key point is that these regulations, made under the Public Health Act 1984, grant extensive powers to restrict fundamental freedoms like movement and assembly without parliamentary approval. David expresses worry that ambiguities in the law could undermine its public health purpose by eroding public confidence and leading to arbitrary enforcement.
The discussion dives into specific problematic aspects of the regulations, such as undefined terms like 'reasonable excuse', confusion between necessities and basic necessities, limits on outdoor exercise, restrictions on gatherings, and lack of clear guidance for police on issuing fines versus criminal charges. Overall, the regulations are presented as raising civil liberties concerns due to their broad, hastily-drafted nature.
Key Episodes Takeaways
- There are also concerns about lack of due process for citizens issued fines, with limited ability to appeal penalties that could be quite costly.
- The UK's new COVID-19 lockdown regulations made under the Public Health Act 1984 grant sweeping powers to restrict civil liberties like freedom of movement and assembly.
- The regulations contain vague language and undefined terms that could lead to inconsistent interpretations and arbitrary enforcement by police.
- There are concerning discrepancies between the written regulations and the UK government's publicly stated 'rules' and guidance on permissible activities.
- Legal experts like David Allen Green argue the hastily drafted regulations risk undermining public confidence and their intended public health purpose through potential overreach and ambiguity.
- The regulations restrict fundamental freedoms to an extent unprecedented since World War II, without parliamentary approval or debate.
- Key areas of vagueness include what counts as a 'reasonable excuse' to go out, definitions of 'necessities' allowed for shopping, limits on outdoor exercise, and rules around gatherings.
- While emergency powers may be warranted, the regulations face criticism for being extraordinarily restrictive while lacking sufficient clarity and oversight.
Top Episodes Quotes
- “These are probably the most draconian pieces of legislation, or at least secondary legislation, since the defence regulations of the second world War, which, of course, had internment without trial, and the famous case of Liveridge and Anderson, where those regulations were upheld with a famous dissent.“ by David Allen Green
- “In fact, I'm against them. When at a time of national emergency, that such laws should be placed under more scrutiny than at other time, not less. You can't just nod along and say, well, let's. Let's not criticize the law because there's a public health emergency.“ by David Allen Green
- “But the laws are there not for the people who will be sensible, but for the people who will not be sensible. And there's a huge amount here for idiotic police officers to be idiotic about, and the costs would be quite, quite substantial for the people they levy the fines on or criminal convictions.“ by David Allen Green
- “Law is not magic. You can't just paint an act of parliament as if it's a wand and say that something somehow disappears because you've tried to prohibit it.“ by David Allen Green
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Episode Information
Better Human Podcast
Adam Wagner
4/1/20
The response to Covid-19 is the key human rights issue in the world at the moment as states move to enforce ‘lockdowns’ of billions of people. In the UK the government has issued guidance on social distancing and emergency regulations which give the police extensive new powers over people's everyday lives. This podcast is a discussion of those laws. I am joined by David Allen Green, lawyer and legal commentator, to take a ‘deep dive’ into the new regulations. We recorded this episode at 9am on Tuesday 31 March so apologies if it has already been overtaken by events when you listen to this.
Remember, everyone should follow the government’s guidance to save lives and protect the NHS. If you have any concerns about your own actions, there is a useful Frequently Asked Questions guidance on the gov.uk website. You can find other links in the episodes notes at at patreon.com/betterhuman