DeepSummary
This podcast episode discusses America's foreign policy challenges regarding the ongoing conflicts in Ukraine and Gaza. Ezra Klein interviews Richard Haass, a former president of the Council on Foreign Relations, to analyze the Biden administration's approach to these crises. Haass argues that the U.S. is insufficiently independent and has become too influenced by allies like Israel and Ukraine, whose interests diverge from America's own.
They delve into the complexities surrounding Israel's actions in Gaza, which the U.S. condemns but continues to support militarily. Haass suggests the U.S. should take a more independent stance, including potentially restricting the use of American weapons in civilian areas. He also contends that the goal of completely liberating Ukraine militarily is unrealistic and that the U.S. should adjust its strategy accordingly.
The conversation also touches on the Republican Party's shift towards isolationism and the domestic political challenges Biden faces due to public dissatisfaction with his handling of foreign affairs. Haass emphasizes the need for clearer communication and a willingness to chart an independent course, even if it means distancing from allies at times.
Key Episodes Takeaways
- The U.S. foreign policy has become too influenced by allies like Israel and Ukraine, whose interests now diverge from America's own.
- The Biden administration needs to take a more independent stance on the conflicts in Ukraine and Gaza, adjusting strategies and communicating more clearly.
- The goal of completely liberating Ukraine militarily is unrealistic, and the U.S. strategy should adapt accordingly.
- Israel's actions in Gaza have gone too far, and the U.S. should consider restricting the use of American weapons in civilian areas.
- The Republican Party's shift towards isolationism and opposition to Ukraine aid complicates bipartisan cooperation on foreign policy.
- Biden faces domestic political challenges due to public dissatisfaction with his handling of foreign affairs crises.
- Clear communication and a willingness to chart an independent course from allies is crucial for an effective U.S. foreign policy.
- The lack of consequences for allies diverging from U.S. interests undermines American foreign policy objectives.
Top Episodes Quotes
- “So the question is, I think year three, by the end of this fighting season, the map looks somewhat like, pretty much like it looks now probably somewhat in. The Russians favor a couple of percent, maybe more of territory. I don't mean to be cavalier because that's people's lives and towns, but the Russians will pick up.“ by Richard Haass
- “I think the administration has to contemplate is whether it's willing to set out on a much more independent policy, not with this israeli government as a partner, but almost to distinguish between this Israel government and this prime minister on one hand and Israel and US israeli relations on the other.“ by Richard Haass
- “The Republicans have ceased to be a party of governance or co governance. Everything is politics and only politics.“ by Richard Haass
- “Americans feel they don't feel they are, without attributing causality. If bad stuff happens on your watch, and you're the incumbent, you pay a price for it.“ by Richard Haass
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Episode Information
The Ezra Klein Show
New York Times Opinion
3/1/24
Joe Biden’s presidency has been dominated by two foreign policy crises: the wars in Ukraine and Gaza. The funding the United States has provided in those wars — billions to both Ukraine and Israel — has drawn backlash from both the right and the left. And now, as the conflicts move into new stages with no clear end game, Biden’s policies are increasingly drawing dissent from the center.
Richard Haass is an icon of the U.S. foreign policy establishment. He served as the president of the Council on Foreign Relations for 20 years and currently writes the newsletter Home & Away. He’s recently been making the case that our foreign policy is insufficiently independent — that we’ve become captured by allies that have interests that diverge from our own. His view of this moment is a signal of larger shifts that could be coming in the U.S. foreign policy consensus.
In this conversation, we discuss why he thinks America’s current strategy on both Ukraine and Israel is untenable, what he thinks the north star for our strategy in both cases should be, the Republican Party’s 180-degree turn from internationalism to isolationism, what America’s biggest national security threat really is and more.
Mentioned:
“The Two-State Mirage” by Marc Lynch and Shibley Telhami
Book Recommendations:
The World That Wasn’t by Benn Steil
Sparks by Ian Johnson
Diplomats at War by Charles Trueheart
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris with Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing from Efim Shapiro. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Sonia Herrero.