DeepSummary
In this episode, anthropologist Eben Kirksey discusses his exploration of the vast and complex world of viruses, which he calls the 'virosphere'. He shares insights from experts like Sasha Gorbalenya, who helped him understand that viruses come alive and multiply within cells, constantly interacting and changing our bodies and genomes. Kirksey emphasizes the need to appreciate the diversity and transformative potential of viruses, while also acknowledging their potential for harm and the vulnerabilities created by factors like racism and lack of healthcare access.
The conversation delves into the concept of symbiosis, which Kirksey argues goes beyond the idea of mutualism and often involves unwanted or exploitative relationships. He examines how symbiotic assemblages can reinforce injustice and how rethinking these relationships could offer new perspectives on contemporary issues. Kirksey also discusses the limitations of categorizing species and ecosystems as fixed entities, advocating for a more fluid and dynamic understanding of ecological systems.
Throughout the episode, Kirksey challenges anthropocentric views and invites listeners to consider the agency and perspectives of other beings, such as ants, chytrids (fungi), and even viruses themselves. He explores how embracing complexity, interconnectedness, and the fluidity of ecological systems can open up new possibilities for collective flourishing and social justice in an era of extinction.
Key Episodes Takeaways
- Viruses play a crucial role in shaping our bodies and genomes, challenging the notion of human exceptionalism and encouraging a more relational understanding of our existence.
- The concept of symbiosis often involves unwanted or exploitative relationships, and rethinking these assemblages could offer new perspectives on contemporary issues.
- Categorizing species and ecosystems as fixed entities is limiting, and a more fluid and dynamic understanding of ecological systems is needed.
- Embracing the complexity, interconnectedness, and agency of other beings is essential for fostering collective flourishing and social justice in an era of extinction.
- Conservation efforts and environmental interventions should be nuanced, contextual, and promote the flourishing of diverse ecological communities amidst constant change.
- Emerging biotechnologies and our relationship with viruses raise important questions about access, vulnerability, and social justice that must be addressed.
- An intersectional and holistic approach to environmental and social issues is necessary, recognizing the complexity and interconnectedness of these challenges while seeking opportunities for liberation and transformation.
- Dominant anthropocentric views and reductive categorizations limit our understanding of the world, and a more humble and relational perspective is needed to address contemporary planetary predicaments.
Top Episodes Quotes
- “So you could also think about viruses as holobionts. You can think of the human as a holobiont, and we're holobionts that interact with each other. If you go back to the root of that word, holobiont, it means entire organism. And this is a word that Lynn Margulis popularized with her theory of symbiogenesis.“ by Eben Kirksey
- “How can we construct new ecosystems while embracing social justice concerns, grappling with the subjective experiences of other organisms, and upholding conservation valleys all at the same same time? Can we craft tactful proposals to those whom we love, offering links to our social worlds and industrial supply chains while keeping windows open that give them opportunities to escape?“ by Eben Kirksey
- “So I very much don't want to just uncritically celebrate the traffic of viruses in and out of our bodies, but to think about who has access to good healthcare, who might be in a position to benefit from some cutting edge gene therapy delivered from a virus, but who might be really at risk from those kinds of experiments that have a chance of going off the rails and running amok.“ by Eben Kirksey
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Episode Information
Green Dreamer: Seeding change towards collective healing, sustainability, regeneration
Kamea Chayne
3/23/23
“I like thinking with viruses because they’re constantly infecting us, changing our nature. Some of them are even changing our genome. We’re constantly in relation with the world around us even though we can barely perceive and understand all of this complexity.”
In this episode, we are joined by anthropologist Eben Kirksey, who invites us to think and feel through a new wave of viral theory through a lens of multi-species entanglement. Through his insatiable curiosity about nature-culture, Eben humbly approaches the viral world as one that reflects the limitations of fixed or reductive categorization. Ultimately, he leaves us with an invitation to explore how radically re-thinking viral systems can offer alternative ways of approaching contemporary socio-political predicaments. He asks: how can we sit with the complexities of symbiotic assemblages amongst species, and what novel relationships are imperative to uplift in an age of extinction?
About the guest:Eben Kirksey is an Associate Professor of Anthropology at the University of Oxford where he teaches Medical Anthropology and Human Ecology. He earned his PhD at the University of California, Santa Cruz, and helped found one of the world's first Environmental Humanities programs at UNSW Sydney in Australia. Investigating some of the most important stories of our time—related to biotechnology, the environment, and social justice—led him to Asia, the Pacific, and the Americas. His books include Freedom in Entangled Worlds (2012) and Emergent Ecologies (2015)–plus The Multispecies Salon (2014), and The Mutant Project (2020), a book that follows some of the world’s first genetically modified people.
(The musical offering featured in this episode Lose My Mind by RVBY MY DEAR. The episode-inspired artwork is by Luci Pina.)
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