DeepSummary
The episode features an interview with Nimrod Novik, a former top aide to Israeli Prime Minister Shimon Peres, discussing a report published in 2021 by Commanders for Israel's Security, a group of former senior defense and diplomatic officials. The report warned of Israel sliding into a 'one-state reality' where it had functional control over Gaza and the West Bank but denied full rights to Palestinians living there, which the group saw as a catastrophe for Israel's security, democracy, international standing, and soul.
Novik explains the report's recommendations for unilateral steps Israel could take to reverse this slide and create conditions for an eventual two-state solution, such as strengthening the Palestinian Authority, expanding areas under its control, and providing a political horizon indicating commitment to Palestinian statehood. He discusses the current situation in Gaza, the displacement and devastation caused by the recent conflict, and the lack of a clear Israeli strategy for governing Gaza after defeating Hamas.
The conversation also covers Israeli politics, Netanyahu's potential motivations for prolonging the conflict, and the prospects for his replacement by a leader like Benny Gantz who may take a different approach towards the Palestinians based on security rationales. Novik argues that while the Israeli public has not historically voted based on the Palestinian issue, pragmatic majorities exist for options like separation and two states if led by the right leadership.
Key Episodes Takeaways
- A group of former senior Israeli officials warned in 2021 that Israel was sliding towards permanently governing Palestinians without rights, which they viewed as catastrophic.
- The group proposed unilateral steps Israel could take to strengthen the Palestinian Authority and create conditions for an eventual two-state solution.
- The current conflict in Gaza has caused massive devastation and displacement, with no clear Israeli strategy for governing the territory after defeating Hamas.
- While the Israeli public has historically not voted based on the Palestinian issue, pragmatic majorities may exist for options like separation if led by the right leadership.
- Netanyahu's policies are seen as empowering Hamas and lacking a cohesive strategy, fueling public desire for his removal despite a lack of confidence in alternatives like Benny Gantz.
- Demographic realities are seen as inevitably requiring Israeli-Palestinian separation to preserve Israel's vision as a Jewish-majority democracy.
- Resolving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict will require overcoming long-standing contradictions and missed opportunities in leadership and policy on both sides.
- Creating a political horizon and strengthening Palestinian governance are viewed as crucial steps, even without a negotiating 'partner for peace'.
Top Episodes Quotes
- “Suddenly it was Bibi built the Hamas. This monster was the product of a policy, deliberate policy, of funding Hamas. $35 million a month coming in in suitcases every election eve. You said the previous government failed to destroy Hamas. You will. And then you come to office time and time and time again, and you created that monster.“ by Nimrod Novik
- “There is a cumulative sense that he is responsible for a major disaster, and therefore must go.“ by Nimrod Novik
- “The question I ask myself is, is he the leader to make it happen? And having watched so many leaders close by and from a distance we cannot predict until one is tested. He has not been tested yet.“ by Nimrod Novik
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Episode Information
The Ezra Klein Show
New York Times Opinion
12/8/23
Before Oct. 7, Israel appeared to many to be sliding into a “one-state reality,” where it had functional control over Gaza and the West Bank, but the Palestinians who lived there were denied full rights. In 2021, a group of hundreds of former senior defense and diplomatic officials in Israel published a report warning that this was a catastrophe — for Israel’s security, its democratic values, its international standing, and its very soul. And they argued that there was another way, that even without a Palestinian “partner for peace,” there was a huge amount Israel could do on its own to create the c...