DeepSummary
In this episode, Jennifer Brown interviews David Smith and Brad Johnson, authors of the book "Good Guys: How Men Can Be Better Allies for Women in the Workplace." They discuss the journey that led them to write the book, the importance of men being allies in the workplace, and strategies for men to move beyond just having good intentions to taking concrete actions towards gender equity.
The guests share insights from their research, including the different levels of allyship actions men can take, such as interpersonal allyship (e.g., mentoring, sponsoring women) and public systemic allyship (disrupting the status quo, holding others accountable). They emphasize that men need to do more than just aspire to be allies; they need to examine their behavior and take tangible steps to support and advocate for women in the workplace.
The conversation also touches on the disproportionate impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on women's workforce participation and the role men can play in mitigating this setback. Smith and Johnson provide specific examples of actions men can take, such as proactively reaching out to talented women who have had to step back due to the pandemic, advocating for flexibility in performance reviews and tenure processes, and being genuine allies at home as well as at work.
Key Episodes Takeaways
- Men need to move beyond good intentions and take concrete actions to disrupt the status quo and advocate for gender equity in the workplace.
- Different levels of allyship include interpersonal actions like mentoring and sponsoring women, as well as public systemic actions that hold others accountable.
- The COVID-19 pandemic has had a disproportionate impact on women's workforce participation, and men have a crucial role in mitigating this setback.
- Men often overestimate their allyship efforts and need to engage in honest self-reflection about the gap between intention and impact.
- Allyship must start at home, with men examining their partnerships and household dynamics to be genuine allies.
- Personal connections and motivations are important drivers for men to engage in allyship work.
- Developing empathy through increased involvement in childcare and household responsibilities can be a catalyst for men to become better allies.
- Men need to listen generously, decenter themselves, and take interpersonal actions like mentoring and sponsoring women.
Top Episodes Quotes
- “And I think that's a humbling piece of feedback for a lot of us, whether we're talking about allyship across race or gender or any other group. The research in social psychology is really clear that those of us in the majority tend to overestimate the extent to which we're actually taking action in this area.“ by Brad Johnson
- “And these guys, it was really interesting to hear, as you brought up the topic of empathy, they talked about this in several different ways. One, they saw with their kids, they really, really appreciated the fact that they, not that they were just helping out their partner, but they were able to have some real close emotional bonding with their kids and developing real relationships, as opposed to the more task centric aspect that I think is fathers and his dad.“ by David Smith
- “And I think the frustrating thing for Brad and I, because we both have personal connections to this work, in addition to our professional, is that, you know, we see this as being really important to us personally.“ by David Smith
- “The research in social psychology is really clear that those of us in the majority tend to overestimate the extent to which we're actually taking action in this area.“ by Brad Johnson
- “And I don't get to show up in the workplace and throw on my ally cape when I'm transparently not a full ally at home. And that's something that I think if I'm going to begin somewhere on my allyship journey, it's to do a domestic partner audit and ask myself if I'm a genuine partner in all ways that matters at home.“ by Brad Johnson
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Episode Information
The Will To Change: Uncovering True Stories of Diversity & Inclusion
Jennifer Brown
1/3/21
Brad Johnson, Professor of psychology in the Department of Leadership, Ethics and Law at the U.S. Naval Academy, and David Smith, Associate Professor of sociology in the College of Leadership and Ethics at the U.S. Naval War College, join the program to discuss how men can be better allies for women in the workplace. Discover why men are so important for solving for equality, equity, and inclusion in the workplace, and what prevents many men from becoming allies for women.