DeepSummary
In this episode, host Luisa Rodriguez interviews philosopher Eric Schwitzgebel about his recent book 'The Weirdness of the World,' which argues that nearly every kind of belief one could have about the nature of the universe and consciousness is extremely dubious and leads to bizarre conclusions. They discuss the materialist view of consciousness and how it might imply that the United States could be a conscious entity, using thought experiments like supersquids and antheads to challenge our intuitions.
Schwitzgebel contends that our intuitions are often unreliable for answering fundamental questions about reality because they evolved for more practical purposes. They explore the possibility of borderline cases of consciousness that are neither fully conscious nor unconscious. The puzzling idea that we might currently be dreaming is also examined, along with its potential ethical implications.
Throughout the conversation, Schwitzgebel emphasizes that while these ideas may seem bizarre and counterintuitive, it is valuable to grapple with the universe's most complex questions, even if completely satisfying solutions remain elusive. He suggests that doing so allows the universe to ponder itself through human contemplation.
Key Episodes Takeaways
- Our intuitions about the nature of consciousness and the universe are often unreliable, having evolved for more practical purposes.
- The materialist view of consciousness leads to bizarre conclusions like the United States potentially being a conscious entity.
- Thought experiments like supersquids and antheads challenge our intuitions about what kinds of entities could be conscious.
- It is possible there are borderline cases of consciousness that are neither fully conscious nor unconscious.
- There is a non-trivial possibility we could currently be dreaming, with potential ethical implications.
- Despite their bizarre and dubious nature, grappling with questions about consciousness and the cosmos is valuable as the universe pondering itself.
- We should embrace a sense of awe and openness to possibilities when our common sense intuitions are challenged by philosophical inquiry.
- While fully satisfying answers may remain elusive, exploring the universe's deepest questions is an important human endeavor worth celebrating.
Top Episodes Quotes
- “Well, I think our intuitions arise from an evolutionary history, a developmental history, and a social history that have to be well tuned to certain things but don't have to be so well tuned to others, right? So if your intuitions were wrong about walking along cliff edges and picking berries and planning parties, you know, then you would soon have physical or social trouble. So our judgments about like, yeah, don't invite that guy to the party if you're also inviting that party. And don't walk so close to cliff edge. And this is how you get a berry off a bush and into a basket. Our intuitions about that have to be well tuned to the environment, basically, but there's no such pressure to have good intuitions about the origin of the universe or the fundamental structure of matter, or what kinds of space aliens would be conscious or not conscious, or whether computers would be conscious right on those kinds of things. There's no corrective source of pressure toward truth or accuracy. So our intuitions can kind of run wild.“ by Eric Schwitzgebel
- “So I think we ought to celebrate that. So the kind of the mood that I prefer, prefer to encourage. I mean, I can see how someone might despair. Like, all of the options seem ridiculous, and how could we figure out what the truth is? I'm gonna give up and, you know, go become a chemist or something. Right. But I think another reaction is to just be struck with awe and wonder and think it's kind of amazing and to see the world as richer with possibilities.“ by Eric Schwitzgebel
Entities
Person
Book
Episode Information
80,000 Hours Podcast
Rob, Luisa, Keiran, and the 80,000 Hours team
6/7/24
"One of the most amazing things about planet Earth is that there are complex bags of mostly water — you and me – and we can look up at the stars, and look into our brains, and try to grapple with the most complex, difficult questions that there are. And even if we can’t make great progress on them and don’t come to completely satisfying solutions, just the fact of trying to grapple with these things is kind of the universe looking at itself and trying to understand itself. So we’re kind of this bright spot of reflectiveness in the cosmos, and I think we should celebrate that fact for its own intrinsic value and interestingness." —Eric Schwitzgebel
In today’s episode, host Luisa Rodriguez speaks to Eric Schwitzgebel — professor of philosophy at UC Riverside — about some of the most bizarre and unintuitive claims from his recent book, The Weirdness of the World.
Links to learn more, highlights, and full transcript.
They cover:
- Why our intuitions seem so unreliable for answering fundamental questions about reality.
- What the materialist view of consciousness is, and how it might imply some very weird things — like that the United States could be a conscious entity.
- Thought experiments that challenge our intuitions — like supersquids that think and act through detachable tentacles, and intelligent species whose brains are made up of a million bugs.
- Eric’s claim that consciousness and cosmology are universally bizarre and dubious.
- How to think about borderline states of consciousness, and whether consciousness is more like a spectrum or more like a light flicking on.
- The nontrivial possibility that we could be dreaming right now, and the ethical implications if that’s true.
- Why it’s worth it to grapple with the universe’s most complex questions, even if we can’t find completely satisfying solutions.
- And much more.
Chapters:
- Cold open (00:00:00)
- Luisa’s intro (00:01:10)
- Bizarre and dubious philosophical theories (00:03:13)
- The materialist view of consciousness (00:13:55)
- What would it mean for the US to be conscious? (00:19:46)
- Supersquids and antheads thought experiments (00:22:37)
- Alternatives to the materialist perspective (00:35:19)
- Are our intuitions useless for thinking about these things? (00:42:55)
- Key ingredients for consciousness (00:46:46)
- Reasons to think the US isn’t conscious (01:01:15)
- Overlapping consciousnesses [01:09:32]
- Borderline cases of consciousness (01:13:22)
- Are we dreaming right now? (01:40:29)
- Will we ever have answers to these dubious and bizarre questions? (01:56:16)
Producer and editor: Keiran Harris
Audio engineering lead: Ben Cordell
Technical editing: Simon Monsour, Milo McGuire, and Dominic Armstrong
Additional content editing: Katy Moore and Luisa Rodriguez
Transcriptions: Katy Moore